tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post6750324077517914619..comments2023-11-27T23:30:40.341-05:00Comments on Anything But Theist: Ten Rules to Live ByAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-48179861025843772192012-01-30T21:12:55.344-05:002012-01-30T21:12:55.344-05:00Actually I want to say that there is no correlatio...Actually I want to say that there is no correlation between the quality of the founding principles and the "fairness" of a culture/ideology/society.<br /><br />In fact, the better the founding principles are, the greater the risk of abuse. Christianiy thought they had found the receipe for an ideal society - love and forgiveness (or whatever). Since this ideal was so good, they did not want anyone to live without it: hence the forced conversions. It was out of charity. They also killed witches out of charity, in order to secure them the life to come in paradise.<br /><br />So I like to play a mind game in order to see how the ideal of enlightenment/atheism based on the universal declaration of human rights could be abused.<br /><br />I think Irak and Afghanistan were good examples: we will bathe you in blood in order to bring you democracy. This is exactely what the catholics did in their worst periods. <br /><br />Or take another example: Dawkins thinks that serious biology/geology is incompatible with the bible. So far so good, I think he is right. But where does he go from there? Shaming and mocking people who want to learn evolution with him and still uphold their religious convictions? I think he crosses the thin line towards intolerance quite a few times. So I could imagine that Dawkin's disciples, the members of the atheist church, could really harm religious individuals in the name of dawkin's principles - for example by making a rule "no tenure in Biology for members of an established religion founded on the bible". By the way, this is the way it was done in Soviet Union.<br /><br />There is always a possibility of doing something bad for a good reason or of perverting a good principle into something bad. It does not depend on the quality of the principle, it is inherent in the concept of "principle".stinkfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-16067269189101490652012-01-30T19:08:02.633-05:002012-01-30T19:08:02.633-05:00I see what you mean. There is a serious problem wi...I see what you mean. There is a serious problem with the accepted dehumanization of non-citizens.<br /><br />I had not put much thought into it, but the US certainly has at least two of those classes. I might be wrong, but foreigners who are here legally in the US are treated pretty much equally (at least from a legal standpoint, maybe not socially in all situations, and they may be deported if they break the law in some other way). However, if you are in America illegally, or you're in a nation we don't like... we treat you pretty atrociously.<br /><br />I don't think history will forgive these actions. You're right, we will be judged by what we did, not only what we stood for.<br /><br />Though to be fair, these are usually not rules, but principles. I think the operating principle in this above example for us is, "Never torture people or kill them without trial." Those who justify what we've done would say those people as not subject to certain laws... they're just wrong, horribly, horribly wrong.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-56418273033948667072012-01-30T18:50:17.279-05:002012-01-30T18:50:17.279-05:00Well I think that our society here in Europe is a ...Well I think that our society here in Europe is a three-class-society, rebuilding the kind of feudalism the enlightenment sought to abolish.<br /><br />We have citizens<br />We have foreigners with permit<br />we have foreigner without permit.<br /><br />Democracy & legal system uphold the rights of citizens as best they can, and, to some extend, also for foreigners.<br /><br />But foreigners without permit are spoiled of their rights, for the simple reason that as soon as they go to court, they will be evicted, so they have no interest in going to court. Believe you me, people take advantage of that.<br /><br />Or take the blind eye democracies turned, all through the last and present centuries, to torture of non-citizens.<br /><br />the french army practiced torture during the colonial wars, e.g. in Algeria. Officers doing it were promoted (for the good results they got from interrogations). At the same time, torture was strictly forbidden in metropolitan France.<br /><br />The same happened now with regards to the Afghan and Irak war. The US laws prohibit torture, but they found a loophole to practice it out of american soil.<br /><br />Take extrajudicail liquidations (like the one of Bin laden, I am afraid to say). The law allows no leeway for executions without trial. Yet those liquidations are accepted.stinkfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-9815796598845707632012-01-30T16:21:44.486-05:002012-01-30T16:21:44.486-05:00First off, I thought your English wasn't bad. ...First off, I thought your English wasn't bad. Don't worry about that.<br /><br />Is there some particular law that is written but that society is not enforcing? Are people getting away with murder somewhere? I know here in the states, there is a bit of a problem when it comes to enforcing rape laws, but for the most part, I'm not aware of any laws we need which are unenforced... if anything, we just lack certain laws.<br /><br />The basic idea of a legal system is that if a law is on the books and someone brings up a grievance, every court in the land will rule in accordance with the law, not social convention.<br /><br />Is there some particular law you have in mind which is being ignored?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-76977314618543705972012-01-30T16:12:16.150-05:002012-01-30T16:12:16.150-05:00Oh, I am sorry. English is not my mother tongue, s...Oh, I am sorry. English is not my mother tongue, so it might be that my way of thinking and my use of language are quite far away from US norms. <br /><br />I agree with you on this point: enforcement is law.<br /><br />However, there is often (or even always) a gap between law (in theory) and enforcement (in practice).<br /><br />It happens that people try to compare ideologies/cultures by comparing their "basic rules" or "scriptures" or "basic laws".<br /><br />My point ist that those scriptures or basic rules are irrelevent most of the time. What counts is how the rules are enforced in practice. So I think that rather than comparing theoretical rules, one should compare what is really done.Stinkfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-6683911388720491972012-01-30T11:14:41.396-05:002012-01-30T11:14:41.396-05:00If a society is enforcing contrary to a rule, then...If a society is enforcing contrary to a rule, then it ceased to be the rule. Enforcement is law, probably more so than legislation. I think a good example of what you mean would help me understand, because I'm not getting what you mean.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-51251252827226872722012-01-30T03:12:14.737-05:002012-01-30T03:12:14.737-05:00Well my point is that any society/culture/ideology...Well my point is that any society/culture/ideology gets to a point where the "legal system", whatever it might be, does not enforce the basic rules, sometimes even their contrary.<br /><br />In general, when those in power have no interest in following the basic rule, they find a legal loophole or exception that will eventually become so big that the rule can be considered invalid.<br /><br />This is way you have to judge a society/culture/ideology by what they actually do, not by what they say they would do.stinkfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-70554444254991781672012-01-29T19:14:45.023-05:002012-01-29T19:14:45.023-05:00I think you do have to hurt someone to enslave the...I think you do have to hurt someone to enslave them, and you are stealing them, literally, in that you are treating their very being (which they are entitled to) as your property.<br /><br />Now, as to whether you can sell yourself... I don't know. However, you can't enslave someone against their will given the rules I listed (at least, I don't think you can).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-372776556680433072012-01-29T19:11:28.561-05:002012-01-29T19:11:28.561-05:00Most rules are really only important in terms of l...Most rules are really only important in terms of legal enforcement. I assume no one is perfect, though rules are best when, if they are followed by all, the result is a functioning society that is fair.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-69757897031929421402012-01-29T19:11:03.546-05:002012-01-29T19:11:03.546-05:00As to 1, i do not see where robing a person of the...As to 1, i do not see where robing a person of their liberty contradicts your commandments... You don't have to rape them or to hurt them nor to murder them, nor to steal from them, etc...stinkfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-57039417690942934122012-01-29T19:09:04.764-05:002012-01-29T19:09:04.764-05:00When my parents act like that, as an adult, I tell...When my parents act like that, as an adult, I tell them to fuck off. That generally works, especially at Thanksgiving.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-23236998028834208762012-01-29T19:07:45.075-05:002012-01-29T19:07:45.075-05:00Definitely, especially for beauty pageants... But ...Definitely, especially for beauty pageants... But I was mainly referring to adult children. Once they are adult, accept that they want to live their life: do not tell them who to marry or who not to marry (you might council them, but don't insist if they will not listen to you), what carrier to embrace or not to embrace, etc...Stinkfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-34238202364642792642012-01-29T19:04:56.686-05:002012-01-29T19:04:56.686-05:00...but in the end, the 10 commandments or 10 rules......but in the end, the 10 commandments or 10 rules are really irrelevant, because no culture, on the long run, abides by its own basic rules...<br /><br />See <br />catholicism -> inquisition<br />Puritanism -> burning witches<br />American Constitution -> Slavery / no voting rights for women<br />universal declaration of human rights -> colonialism or Guantanamo<br /><br />On the other hand, it might well happen that cultures, although aggressive in their basic rules tones down, either for lack of power or in order to adapt to less aggressive cultures surrounding them...stinkfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-59658617967562603642012-01-29T19:03:20.518-05:002012-01-29T19:03:20.518-05:00If you manage to keep a slave without breaking any...If you manage to keep a slave without breaking any of the above rules... go for it. I think that's called "owning your own business."<br /><br />I'm not sure I understand your second rule. Are you saying one of the ten most important rules to live by includes not pushing your kid into sports/acting/beauty pageants?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5721082653718997788.post-53335163475786765712012-01-29T18:58:16.508-05:002012-01-29T18:58:16.508-05:00What about don't make, use or trade slaves?
O...What about don't make, use or trade slaves?<br /><br />Or<br /><br />Don't force your children to fulfill your dreams? (aka Let them live their lives)Stinfootnoreply@blogger.com