I don't think it's going to make the world any safer. It's just one man, there are others. I don't think 'Al Qaeda' is a hierarchical organization that is as well organized as some people think. I think it's composed of independent cells that don't depend on a command structure, so killing its leader is mostly symbolic, as it's not going to affect them much.
From what I can see so far, the right is bitter and angry about it and the left is gloating and victorious, not because the nation got Bin Ladin, but because "Obama" did. It is a political victory for one party and a political defeat for the other, and catching a terrorist is back there on the back burner somewhere and will probably be burnt up before anyone notices.
@Bunny Nikk: Not sure why I forgot to bring up the missing body. Seems really convenient that it got disposed of at sea so quickly.
"Oh yeah we killed him, we swear." "Can we inspect the body?" "No, we already got rid of it." "Any photos?" "We're still waiting for Bob in our photoshop department, um, I mean in our intelligence department to email them in" "Wait, you said 'photoshop'?" "No, I most certainly did not."
I do think he is dead though. Unless he made a deal with the witness protection program. Which I don't think he did. But that would make a great movie.
What would you like them to have done? Made him into a marionette to enact Greek tragedies?
They got a DNA sample and apparently they have footage (which I assume they're holding onto in order to avoid inflaming revenge attacks... or perhaps to stoke idiots into questioning it, thus creating another under-handed lob to the Obama administration after the Birthers lost their steam).
Maybe they could have held on to it for an extra day so a free and independent press would have been able to see it, and independently verify the claim.
DNA evidence doesn't do a thing to prove where the sample came from. For all we know, it could have been an old sample from his dialysis fifteen years ago compared against itself : "It matches!" No shit!
People worship DNA evidence to the point where they don't question it. It's really easy to manipulate DNA evidence.
That said, a a-la-Bernie's puppet show would be quite the youtube sensation.
Maybe Obama went ahead with the 'kill' mission to prove once and for all that he was serious about terrorism and to make Republicans shut up about it. Maybe he could poke fun at Trump too and say : "I have accomplished something nobody else has accomplished."
I am pretty sure he's dead (can you imagine the embarrassment if Bin Laden releases a new videotape next week? "Aha! that was my twin brother, fools!" ) I'm just saying it's kinda odd that they got rid of the body so quickly.
Actually, I'm pretty sure they tested the sample DNA against DNA from his sister that they have on file. I'm not sure they have his DNA. Besides, yo ucan test how old a sample is.
And it's not easy to manipulate DNA. You're talking to someone who's done gel electrophoresis tests. The people testing the sample may not have even known whose DNA they were checking. I think it's dangerous to cast unfounded doubts on a scientific process because it suits your current argument (and one which is ridiculously weak, to the point of trying to cast doubt on DNA testing in a last-ditch effort to keep doubt alive).
My wife confirmed it and I'm looking for the comment (I think I said it in a comment I made about the 2009 state of the union address on SE, but I haven't had time to sort through the thousands of posts), but I said very early that Obama was clearly making a concerted effort to expand efforts in Pakistan and that he was undoubtedly going for bin Laden. Had this been timed more advantageously, he could have really benefitted. As short as America's attention span is, this may be forgotten by this Christmas.
I think they disposed of the body quickly for a reason. I think making a spectacle of him would have invited an attack (or been viewed as such by the people who are nit-picking over things now). I think they did it as tastefully as you can pull off a quintuple murder. I don't know the timeline, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was sinking to the bottom of the sea within an hour or two of being killed, and that this was viewed as the best way to prevent immediate retaliation. I think that laying him out to be photographed like a freak show would have rather offensive, in light of Muslim customs (they're sort of like Jews, in that they want to go right into the ground... though they didn't want to create a place for hero worship, so they dumped him overboard).
They didn't worry about that when Saddam's sons were killed. The pictures of their corpses were all over CNN.com
Now, all we have is pictures of a bloody carpet. We don't actually see him on tape getting shot.
By manipulating I'm not saying it's easy to do DNA analysis, I'm saying it's easy to take a sample of blood from someone and plant it near the scene of the crime.
Even easier! Hold a press conference and just claim you had a sample tested. You don't even need a sample, you just need to say you had one and got it tested. No one is going to verify, they'll just take your word for it.
Saddam wasn't a terrorist who had people saying that his death would result in nuclear weapons being detonated in Europe (I think the claims of al Qaeda are a bit lofty).
I don't know what images they have. There is video, so there's no reason there can't be video of his capture or corpse.
I'm completely at a loss for this psychotic, po-mo "we can't know anything for certain" bullshit. You can choose to obsess about wild conjectures and promote universal distrust, but you're not helping anyone, since all this bullshit is a distraction from actual issues. These "questions" I keep seeing that are just so important, like where was Obama born or whether he's a socialist or if he knew a guy who did something heinous... it's just bullshit that has nothing to do with the tasks at hand.
I don't understand the fascination in pursuing fanciful conspiracies that inevitably turn out to make its supporters look the fool. Maybe 9/11 was an inside job and Osama doesn't even exist at all. Where's the birth certificate???
Who cares, what's that got to do with double digit unemployment?
Who cares, what's that got to do with double digit unemployment?
Why should we care about anything? Our entire civilization is pointless, because in 3 billion years, the Sun is going to become a red giant and is going to absorb the Earth. Then, the entire Universe will keep on expanding , slowly heading towards thermodynamic entropy anyway, and space will be a cold, dark place. For eternity.
Yeah, like, WTF is going to happen to my ARM APR if the housing market doesn't rebound and the Fed raises interest rates and I'm stuck having to sell at a loss?
I was surprised they actually found him.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's going to make the world any safer. It's just one man, there are others. I don't think 'Al Qaeda' is a hierarchical organization that is as well organized as some people think. I think it's composed of independent cells that don't depend on a command structure, so killing its leader is mostly symbolic, as it's not going to affect them much.
From what I can see so far, the right is bitter and angry about it and the left is gloating and victorious, not because the nation got Bin Ladin, but because "Obama" did. It is a political victory for one party and a political defeat for the other, and catching a terrorist is back there on the back burner somewhere and will probably be burnt up before anyone notices.
ReplyDeletethe right is bitter and angry about it
ReplyDeleteI knew it: the right hates America.
Something doesn't smell right about the whole affair.
ReplyDeleteAnnoyance since I have to be bombarded with stupidity on all side.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it didn't take long for the conspiracy nuts to start speculating wildly, but it's all worth it to see Democrats applauding violence.
ReplyDeleteOne person's annoyance is another's amusement, I suppose. Come roast marshmellows with me as the world burns... it's more fun this way.
@Bunny Nikk: Not sure why I forgot to bring up the missing body. Seems really convenient that it got disposed of at sea so quickly.
ReplyDelete"Oh yeah we killed him, we swear."
"Can we inspect the body?"
"No, we already got rid of it."
"Any photos?"
"We're still waiting for Bob in our photoshop department, um, I mean in our intelligence department to email them in"
"Wait, you said 'photoshop'?"
"No, I most certainly did not."
I do think he is dead though. Unless he made a deal with the witness protection program. Which I don't think he did. But that would make a great movie.
What would you like them to have done? Made him into a marionette to enact Greek tragedies?
ReplyDeleteThey got a DNA sample and apparently they have footage (which I assume they're holding onto in order to avoid inflaming revenge attacks... or perhaps to stoke idiots into questioning it, thus creating another under-handed lob to the Obama administration after the Birthers lost their steam).
Maybe they could have held on to it for an extra day so a free and independent press would have been able to see it, and independently verify the claim.
ReplyDeleteDNA evidence doesn't do a thing to prove where the sample came from. For all we know, it could have been an old sample from his dialysis fifteen years ago compared against itself : "It matches!" No shit!
People worship DNA evidence to the point where they don't question it. It's really easy to manipulate DNA evidence.
That said, a a-la-Bernie's puppet show would be quite the youtube sensation.
Maybe Obama went ahead with the 'kill' mission to prove once and for all that he was serious about terrorism and to make Republicans shut up about it. Maybe he could poke fun at Trump too and say : "I have accomplished something nobody else has accomplished."
I am pretty sure he's dead (can you imagine the embarrassment if Bin Laden releases a new videotape next week? "Aha! that was my twin brother, fools!" ) I'm just saying it's kinda odd that they got rid of the body so quickly.
Actually, I'm pretty sure they tested the sample DNA against DNA from his sister that they have on file. I'm not sure they have his DNA. Besides, yo ucan test how old a sample is.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's not easy to manipulate DNA. You're talking to someone who's done gel electrophoresis tests. The people testing the sample may not have even known whose DNA they were checking. I think it's dangerous to cast unfounded doubts on a scientific process because it suits your current argument (and one which is ridiculously weak, to the point of trying to cast doubt on DNA testing in a last-ditch effort to keep doubt alive).
My wife confirmed it and I'm looking for the comment (I think I said it in a comment I made about the 2009 state of the union address on SE, but I haven't had time to sort through the thousands of posts), but I said very early that Obama was clearly making a concerted effort to expand efforts in Pakistan and that he was undoubtedly going for bin Laden. Had this been timed more advantageously, he could have really benefitted. As short as America's attention span is, this may be forgotten by this Christmas.
I think they disposed of the body quickly for a reason. I think making a spectacle of him would have invited an attack (or been viewed as such by the people who are nit-picking over things now). I think they did it as tastefully as you can pull off a quintuple murder. I don't know the timeline, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was sinking to the bottom of the sea within an hour or two of being killed, and that this was viewed as the best way to prevent immediate retaliation. I think that laying him out to be photographed like a freak show would have rather offensive, in light of Muslim customs (they're sort of like Jews, in that they want to go right into the ground... though they didn't want to create a place for hero worship, so they dumped him overboard).
They didn't worry about that when Saddam's sons were killed. The pictures of their corpses were all over CNN.com
ReplyDeleteNow, all we have is pictures of a bloody carpet. We don't actually see him on tape getting shot.
By manipulating I'm not saying it's easy to do DNA analysis, I'm saying it's easy to take a sample of blood from someone and plant it near the scene of the crime.
Even easier! Hold a press conference and just claim you had a sample tested. You don't even need a sample, you just need to say you had one and got it tested. No one is going to verify, they'll just take your word for it.
Saddam wasn't a terrorist who had people saying that his death would result in nuclear weapons being detonated in Europe (I think the claims of al Qaeda are a bit lofty).
ReplyDeleteI don't know what images they have. There is video, so there's no reason there can't be video of his capture or corpse.
I'm completely at a loss for this psychotic, po-mo "we can't know anything for certain" bullshit. You can choose to obsess about wild conjectures and promote universal distrust, but you're not helping anyone, since all this bullshit is a distraction from actual issues. These "questions" I keep seeing that are just so important, like where was Obama born or whether he's a socialist or if he knew a guy who did something heinous... it's just bullshit that has nothing to do with the tasks at hand.
I don't understand the fascination in pursuing fanciful conspiracies that inevitably turn out to make its supporters look the fool. Maybe 9/11 was an inside job and Osama doesn't even exist at all. Where's the birth certificate???
Who cares, what's that got to do with double digit unemployment?
Who cares, what's that got to do with double digit unemployment?
ReplyDeleteWhy should we care about anything? Our entire civilization is pointless, because in 3 billion years, the Sun is going to become a red giant and is going to absorb the Earth. Then, the entire Universe will keep on expanding , slowly heading towards thermodynamic entropy anyway, and space will be a cold, dark place. For eternity.
a distraction from actual issues.
ReplyDeleteYeah, like, WTF is going to happen to my ARM APR if the housing market doesn't rebound and the Fed raises interest rates and I'm stuck having to sell at a loss?
You mean that kind of issue?
Yep, that sort of issue. And the royal wedding, obviously...
ReplyDeleteOsama is dead and the Yankees are thinking that America is as safe as heaven !
ReplyDelete