Wednesday, April 4, 2012

Stump a Christian #1

If you travel back in time and worship Jesus before he was crucified (or even born), will you still be saved?


  1. Obviously, since Jesus died to forgive us of Eve's sins, you cannot be forgiven prior to to the death of Jesus.

    The only possible loophole may be the fact that Jesus did not die (come to an end), but merely slept for three days, so God did not really give His only begotten Son, but rather tricked people into thinking He did.

    Now, it could be that prior the birth of God's Son, you had to accept God himself. However, that also should be no problem, as the begotten Son He gave, but did not really give, was Himself, so not really His Son.

    And God Himself did not die, but always existed and was available for acceptance, which is also the case for His Son, except for the three missing days.

    It is all very simple and logical, so your trick questions will not work.

    1. It's not a trick. Rather, since there is ample evidence in the Bible saying Jesus existed since the beginning of time, why not be saved for accepting Jesus as your savior before he came to Earth?

    2. Bret has the right answer. God is supposed to be "outside" of time, so all events exist to him simultaneously. Those born "before" the death of Jesus are still saved based on his death and resurrection.

      The way Bret put his stumper, involving time travel, provides the right answer there in that very premise.

  2. God's little tricks. Entertaining for him. Not so much for us. I think the Greeks had it right. Gods above looking down from Olympus and laughing whilst they mess with us below.
    I think John Myste got it right.

  3. I will suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that time travel is possible. I will suspend disbelief even further and imagine that Jesus really existed and was crucified.

    No, I wouldn't be saved (nor would anyone) for engaging in worship because the doctrine of salvation in itself is absurd baloney.

    1. Christians themselves can't agree on any consistant theory of atonement. How exactly does the death of Jesus "save" someone?

      Gun-toting fool may, however, be referring to the very idea of needing to be saved in the first place, and I would agree.

    2. In many primitive cultures, human sacrifice is believed to be effective at appeasing the wrath of the gods by quenching their thirst for human blood. Now when a god becomes human so that he may offer himself in sacrifice to himself so that he may appease his own anger towards humanity caused by the disobedience of a woman who ate fruit from a tree at the bequest of a talking snake, that is just completely messed up especially if said deity remains pissed of at you for not recognizing the awesomeness of the plan.

  4. Of the 3 questions you've listed so far, this is the only question with a real inquiry.

    God is outside of time (God, being the trinity - 3 person, 1 God), so yes you would be saved.

    There are many examples, including the 2 criminals that were executed with him - one was saved and the other wasn't.

    Interesting, I was thinking about time travel yesterday. Since he is able to more than we ask or imagine - it would include time travel. Jesus time travelled, and I've heard testimonies of other [modern-day] people time travelling. Ezekiel also time travelled.

    There are several accounts of theophany in the Old Testament (with Abraham, with Joshua, with Shadrach, Meschach & Abednego) and since God said no one could see his face and live, it is understood that the theophanies were actually of Jesus.

    Anyway, I don't rule out time travel just because it's not a common occurrence.


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